Talk:Memorial Day

Proposed merge - Decoration Day

This article already contains all pertinent information about the origins of Memorial Day as Decoration Day, and continued observances of Decoration Days. As the holiday is the primary topic for the term Decoration Day, I propose that Decoration Day be changed to a redirect to Memorial Day. The other meanings of the term (e.g. the film and Drive-By Truckers album) should be moved to Decoration Day (disambiguation). Does anyone have any objections? Nick Number (talk) 15:10, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

• Support the proposed merge, as all other references invoke the holiday. bd2412 T 15:20, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
• I support the merge as well for the above reasons. wia (talk) 12:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Merge complete. Nick Number (talk) 19:04, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Images

Two images on the page don't appear to be correct -- showing a picture of a ceiling fan? Can someone fix this? 2601:A:5F00:65F:C448:4CC5:8826:D18B (talk) 04:22, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello! The others noticed the picture, and if you have it, then we would be very grateful for your help. Special:Contributions/Kulamap (talk) 19:33, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Ok, glad to help. Let's start with a question: What, exactly, are you talking about? which image have you "noticed" and what would you like done about it? Beeblebrox (talk) 19:50, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Clicking on the image of the ceiling fan takes you to the wikimedia page which references its source https://catalog.archives.gov/id/558761 that page has the correct image — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.200.246.117 (talk) 22:59, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Picture is Wrong

A ceiling fan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.47.218.100 (talk) 14:14, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

What ceiling fan?? - BilCat (talk) 14:22, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

The picture with the caption "Civil War Veterans in Ortonville, Minnesota, on the Fourth of July, 1880—also called "Decoration Day" prior to the Uniform Monday Holiday Act almost a century later." Appears as a ceiling fan on my system It is on the right side of the screen in line with the sub Title "History of the Holiday"

Is the original picture available. Or should this image and caption be removed. 71.211.107.60 (talk) 22:25, 25 May 2015 (UTC)N8Brad

GregorianCalender/Whit Monday/table formatting

I have just removed a few things:

• A mention in the lead that the date is determined by the Gregorian Calender
• Extra formatting int he table of dates that showed when this coresponded with the unrelated Whit Monday holiday in other countries, again mentioning the Gregorian Calender

The reason I removed these is simple: All dates in prety much all western countries are based ont he Gregorian Calender. It has been in use in the U.S. since colonial times. And the times it coincided with the completely unrelated European religious holiday Whit Monday are utterly meaningless coincidences that do not add to the reader's understanding of either subject.

That leaves one least thing: the re-formatting of the table of dates. It was vertically aligned, now it is horizontally aligned and if I may say rather confusing to look at. It also runs off the edge of the page, causing formatting that shrinks the text, making this page slightly more difficult to read on smaller screens. I propsoe it be changed back to the former alignment. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:50, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

comparison of old and new versions

Old version: Year Memorial Day 1971 1999 2027 2055 2083 May 31 1972 2000 2028 2056 2084 May 29 1973 2001 2029 2057 2085 May 28 1974 2002 2030 2058 2086 May 27 1975 2003 2031 2059 2087 May 26 1976 2004 2032 2060 2088 May 31 1977 2005 2033 2061 2089 May 30 1978 2006 2034 2062 2090 May 29 1979 2007 2035 2063 2091 May 28 1980 2008 2036 2064 2092 May 26 1981 2009 2037 2065 2093 May 25 1982 2010 2038 2066 2094 May 31 1983 2011 2039 2067 2095 May 30 1984 2012 2040 2068 2096 May 28 1985 2013 2041 2069 2097 May 27 1986 2014 2042 2070 2098 May 26 1987 2015 2043 2071 2099 May 25 1988 2016 2044 2072 May 30 1989 2017 2045 2073 May 29 1990 2018 2046 2074 May 28 1991 2019 2047 2075 May 27 1992 2020 2048 2076 May 25 1993 2021 2049 2077 May 31 1994 2022 2050 2078 May 30 1995 2023 2051 2079 May 29 1996 2024 2052 2080 May 27 1997 2025 2053 2081 May 26 1998 2026 2054 2082 May 25 New version Year Memorial Day 1971 1976 1982 1993 1999 2004 2010 2021 2027 2032 2038 2049 2055 2060 2066 2083 2077 2083 2088 2094 May 31 1977 1983 1988 1994 2005 2011 2016 2022 2033 2039 2044 2050 2061 2067 2072 2078 2089 2095 May 30 1972 1978 1989 1995 2000 2006 2017 2023 2028 2034 2045 2051 2056 2062 2073 2079 2084 2090 May 29 1973 1979 1984 1990 2001 2007 2012 2018 2029 2035 2040 2046 2057 2063 2068 2074 2085 2091 2096 May 28 1974 1985 1991 1996 2002 2013 2019 2024 2030 2041 2047 2052 2058 2069 2075 2080 2086 2097 May 27 1975 1980 1986 1997 2003 2008 2014 2025 2031 2036 2042 2053 2059 2064 2070 2081 2087 2092 2098 May 26 1981 1987 1992 1998 2009 2015 2020 2026 2037 2043 2048 2054 2065 2071 2076 2082 2093 2099 May 25

Allright then,  Done. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:43, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Strange Claims

The article says: "n June 28, 1968, the Congress passed the Uniform Monday Holiday Act, which moved four holidays, including Memorial Day, from their traditional dates to a specified Monday in order to create a convenient three-day weekend.[40] The change moved Memorial Day from its traditional May 30 date to the last Monday in May. The law took effect at the federal level in 1971.[40]"

1. It was not moved to a Monday to make a "convenient three-day weekend." 2. As the article shows, May 30th was only the day for one organization. 3. The source is to the law and does not make these fringe claims. Someone obviously messed around with the article to try to disparage the holiday. 173.153.9.202 (talk) 21:42, 25 May 2015 (UTC) "The VFW stated in a 2002 Memorial Day Address: "Changing the date merely to create three-day weekends has undermined the very meaning of the day. No doubt, this has contributed a lot to the general public's nonchalant observance of Memorial Day.[41] This is also not in the source. Why are there so many claims like that with faked sources?173.153.9.202 (talk) 21:52, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

It was moved to create more three-day weekends, at least according to the president who signed it into law [1]. It's neither a fringe claim nor disparaging to say so. Calidum T|C 21:53, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

WP:VERIFIABILITY - those aren't cited and yes, it is a negative claim. Your link doesn't say what the article claims and instead says that it was moved to ensure that the Federal Government was not closed in the middle of the week ("he costs will be offset to an important degree by avoiding disruptions of Government business through Monday observance of holidays. "). That is a very different reason. Your link says that fixing the date helps families get together. It also doesn't say that May 30th was the "true" date or make a claim about the VFW wanting May 30th. Wikipedia pages shouldn't be home to false information hidden behind reference notes that don't say what is being claimed. This site has a lot of problems with that. 173.153.7.11 (talk) 22:43, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I most certainly do see the bit about bringing families together in Johnson's remarks. He also said the bit about saving moey for both governmental and private entities. They are not mutually exclusive. As the text of his remarks are uncopyrightable I am simply going to reproduce the whole thing here so we can all easily see it.

THE BILL that we sign today will help Americans to enjoy more fully the country that is their magnificent heritage. It will also aid the work of Government and bring new efficiency to our economy.

This bill provides that three of our national holidays will be celebrated on Monday: --Washington's Birthday on the third Monday in February, --Memorial Day on the last Monday in May, --Veterans Day on the fourth Monday in October. The bill will take effect on January 1, 1971. State legislatures will thus have time to act for observances in local government offices and in private employment.

This will mean a great deal to our families and our children. It will enable families who live some distance apart to spend more time together. Americans will be able to travel farther and see more of this beautiful land of ours. They will be able to participate in a wider range of recreational and cultural activities. The bill also establishes Columbus Day as a Federal holiday--to be celebrated on the second Monday in October. Thirty-four of our States have already established a day honoring Christopher Columbus. It is fitting now that we give national expression to our faith in the spirit of discovery embodied by this great adventurer. This new holiday will henceforth honor one of our finest and most cherished national characteristics--our ability to live and work together, men and women of all national origins, as one united and progressive nation.

The provisions of this bill insure a minimum of five regularly recurring 3-day weekends each year for Federal employees. The costs will be offset to an important degree by avoiding disruptions of Government business through Monday observance of holidays.

The private employer will enjoy similar gains in efficiency. The Monday holiday will stimulate greater industrial and commercial production, sparing business and labor the penalty of midweek shutdowns.

Beeblebrox (talk) 02:02, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

three day weekends was an explicit goal. & LBJ mentions that midweek holidays are disruptive. Rjensen (talk) 02:13, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Initial sentence is wrong.

Initial sentence says Memorial Day is a federal holiday in the United States for remembering the people who died while serving in the country's armed forces.[1]

That is true

This is a legal federal holiday that should point to the federal laws informing the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:80A5:90:ADD7:8D2C:9146:B8C8 (talk) 01:53, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Memorial Day / Decoration Day

74.219.48.158 (talk) 18:07, 26 May 2016 (UTC)current article starts out with a claim in 1868 for Decatur, Il starting Decoration Day.

its looks like Waterloo NY also shares a claim to first Decoration in 1866, supported by Lyndon Johnson and affirmation by senate and house.

only offering.

Dennis

74.219.48.158 (talk) 18:07, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Being that Decoration Day didn't exist as a nationwide day of observance until May 1868, Ironton is most likely laying claim to having the oldest continuously running Memorial Day parade based off of the official start of the federal holiday. Before 1868, any day of observance was local or regional and not nationwide. These parades and celebrations would not be official "Decoration Day" events because Decoration Day didn't yet exist as declared by the federal government. Any events happening before would be more in line with local remembrances rather than national and it is very likely that communities were remembering their fallen as far back as the Revolutionary War. Although the purposes are the same in that fallen soldiers were memorialized, saying an event in 1866 or 1867 is a "Memorial Day event" would be incorrect since there was no official Memorial Day declared yet.

Ironton held its first Decoration Day parade the very day that John A. Logan, the commander-in-chief of the Grand Army of the Republic called for the national observance of Decoration Day, pulling from a tradition that began in the south. That was May 5, 1868. It has been difficult to find when the other communities held their first parades. What I have found so far are just years and not months or days. It is possible that Ironton's parade is older by days rather than the number of parades after the official declaration that Decoration Day would be observed nationwide. The U.S. Congress has recognized Ironton as having the longest continuously running Memorial Day Parade in the nation. There are some other communities that have laid such claim, but it was found that they skipped a year or two, particularly during wartime.

-Ginger — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.23.47.219 (talk) 12:16, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Memorial Day

The source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day#cite_note-6) for the differentiation between Memorial Day and Veteran's Day seems to be a questionable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.101.36.181 (talk) 21:11, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Why is a daily published newspaper, the Baltimore Sun, a questionable source? - BilCat (talk) 22:37, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

The IP's objection to it could be based on it being an opinion piece, but the claim itself (Memorial Day is for those died; Veterans Day is for all veterans) isn't extraordinary. Calidum ¤ 23:07, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Introduction and History Sections

Various authors seem to want to put their version of the history of the holiday in the introduction to this article. Since the history is so complicated, it is wrong for any version to be appended to the introduction. Though it makes some sense to include the inception of the holiday in the Intro, since the inception of this holiday is so highly disputed among scholars, no beginning, other than the 1868 official launch of the holiday by John A. Logan, is worthy of including in the Intro.

All of the other prominent claims are mentioned in the History portion of the article where they belong.

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Gettysburg Blue and Grey reunion

To editor Rjensen: Eight years ago you added a bunch of content, most of it uncited. Today, I removed a still-unsourced surviving paragraph about Woodrow Wilson and James Heflin. Assuming you actually had a source for that content, please provide it. I worry that citogenesis has occurred, as you can find newer outlets parroting what you wrote. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) Chris Troutman (talk) 19:50, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

I should have cited it better--my old notes show I used a bunch of sources Albanese, Catherine. "Requiem for Memorial Day: Dissent in the Redeemer Nation," American Quarterly, in JSTOR; Bellah, Robert N. "Civil Religion in America." Daedalus 1967 96(1): 1-21. online edition; Blight, David W. "Decoration Day: The Origins of Memorial Day in North and South" in Alice Fahs and Joan Waugh, eds. The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture (2004), in Questia; pp 94-129; Peter Karsten, "Encyclopedia of War and American Society; and Myers Robert J. "Memorial Day". Chapter 24 in Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays. (1972). Rjensen (talk) 20:30, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

"Ancient custom"

Given that the US certainly is not there since the ancient times (period till ca 500-1400 AD, depending on interpretation), using the term seems strange in this context. I am not an American native speaker, but believe also in American English this definition of "ancient" should hold. I believe a much better wording would be "very old" or "historic" custom. Any American speakers to advise ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.212.29.78 (talk) 10:15, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

The word "ancient" here does, in fact, refer to a custom from the ancient times. (For posterity, the sentence OP refers to is "The practice of decorating soldiers' graves with flowers is an ancient custom." According to the cited source, decorating graves with flowers began with "an ancient custom which prevailed in the East of burying in gardens," and the source lists several examples of historic figures and grave sites where flowers are placed. StephenWade (talk) 14:31, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2018

I think those who established this page needs to review and acknowledge the true origins of Memorial Day (Decoration Day). The origin of this holiday as we know it today was started by enslaved Africans. That needs to be stated at the top of this posting. We can not continue to whitewash America's (African American) History nor deny the truth. Thank You. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:f240:d300:acf8:8efe:d9f:d0ca (talk) 16:26, May 28, 2018‎

The claim that African Americans started Memorial Day is held by many, but is in no way without a great deal of controversy. Several reputable sources cast doubt on the claim. Even the non-partisan fact-checking agency, Snopes, has determined that the claim is false (SEE HERE). Time Magazine and other reputable sources have published reputable critiques of the African-American origin story as well. Even the most noteworthy proponent of the theory, Dr. David Blight, said that there is no evidence that the African-American event led to what is today Memorial Day. This isn't an issue about race, but whether or not the claim can be sustained with evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hilltoppers (talk • contribs) 22:52, May 28, 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Hilltoppers has already given sources that refute the proposed changes, so any request will need to be accompanied by very persuasive reliable sources. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 03:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Did Professor Blight "discover" anything undiscovered?

The claim that Professor Blight "discovered" sources that support the Charleston claim seems to imply that others prior to Blight were unaware of those sources. Many others before Blight had "discovered" those sources. To wit, Charles Cowley, Leaves from a Lawyer’s Life Afloat and Ashore (1879); Hill’s Album of Biography and Art (1891), p. 369; The Homiletic Review (1900) Vol. 39, 431; Granville Priest, History of the New Hampshire Surgeons in the War of Rebellion (Conn, 1906); Lyceumite and Talent (Feb. 1908), 14; American Legion Magazine (Vol. 27-28, 1939); The New Yorker Magazine (1952) Vol. 28, Part 3; Culture Under Canvas the Story of Tent Chautauqua (1978); The Folklore of American Holidays (1991), 215.

unofficial start of the summer vacation season --> holds link comercial web site

unofficial start of the summer vacation season --> holds link comercial web site195.75.72.16 (talk) 14:54, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Out-of-date link for reference 53 "Presidential Proclamation 3727"

Change http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=27618 to https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/proclamation-3727-prayer-for-peace-memorial-day-1966 in the hyperlink with the text "Presidential Proclamation 3727" in reference #53.

The former appears to be out-of-date and redirects to an empty webform where I was able to search and find the latter. Blanerhoads (talk) 21:04, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done Jack Frost (talk) 23:26, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

The black history of memorial day

I recommend that the black historical roots are represented in this forum.

https://time.com/5836444/black-memorial-day/

• The events in Charleston which were researched and publicized by David Blight have been discussed fairly extensively on this talk page - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Memorial_Day/Archive_1 Basically, if you read Blight's actual scholarship, he doesn't - and can't - claim that the event there was a source or inspiration for the holiday. In actuality, it was a spontaneous celebration similar to many others which arose spontaneously at the end of the war, and which were codified by Logan's declaration into an annual event. It is worth mentioning as a good example of the kinds of celebrations which were happening. Brianyoumans (talk) 05:42, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Harry S. Truman's 1950 Proclamation

We're 72 years after President Harry S. Truman's 1950 Proclamation Speech that added additional meaning to Memorial Day provided by the US Congress and approved by the President. President Truman added that Memorial Day is to be also observed as a day for "nation-wide prayer for permanent peace" henceforth. There's no mention of this in the Memorial Day page. Since this was a proclamation from a sitting US President and marked with the Official Seal of these U.S.A., it should be added within its own section. The Wikipedia Page's Introduction needs be edited to reflect the omitted facts. Here's a hyperlink to the Harry S. Truman Library & Museum's copy of the Official Proclamation:

https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/library/proclamations/2889/prayer-peace-memorial-day — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.99.181 (talk) 18:39, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Stop Obscuring Confederate History by Burying the Lede

Alot of unionist northerners would like to forget this, but it is a notable historical fact. Ignoring history doesn't make it go away. Just because the southern revanchists might want to "remember" it in the exaggerated mythological way, doesn't mean that we should suppress it here on supposedly "neutral" wikipedia. Behold the Systemic bias toward recentism, spectacle over substance, cultural appropriation, and the progressive "colorblind" white supremacism, that is mainstream in Anglo-american society and therefore also on wikipedia. Regards, Jaredscribe (talk) 02:33, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Proposed lede May 30th, now reverted Jaredscribe (talk) 03:09, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

introduction

I've never edited a Wikipedia article before, so don't feel qualified. But this statement in the introduction is just nonsense:

"Memorial Day is also the holiday too showcase the “summer feels” in the United States." 2601:243:2680:C520:C412:298F:C9ED:887F (talk) 19:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

خدا

خدا چگونه است 5.121.158.89 (talk) 16:24, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Earliest Possible date for Memorial Day

so I'm trying to figure that out ChaseTOM4YT (talk) 05:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)