Talk:South Tyrol

Southtyroleans was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 12 January 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into South Tyrol. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Note to editors: In the past there have been several discussions on this article's naming. The agreed consensus for the dispute is that this page shall be titled according to WP:NCCN which results in using South Tyrol.

Change South Tyrol to Southtyrol

Reasons: 1. Officially its "Südtirol" = "Southtyrol"

2.South Tyrol is a political Word used by certain Parties which propagate the Unification with Nord- and Easttyrol; The vast majority of Natives is not in support.

EDIT: Also the official Name is "Autonome Provinz Bozen – Südtirol"! http://lexbrowser.provinz.bz.it/

320luca (talk) 13:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article follows established English usage, which is South_Tyrol. The spelling Southtyrol is non-existant in sources. Cheers, --Mai-Sachme (talk) 21:10, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Names in Infobox

Hi, why is German before Italian on the top of the infobox? Should not the name in the national language (Italian) go first? Simoncik84 (talk) 09:35, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison: Basque Country (autonomous community), Catalonia, Åland. Mai-Sachme (talk) 16:41, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I didn't notice this reply before applying later edit (see following paragraph). Simoncik84 (talk) 09:56, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Order of language versions

@Simoncik84: Please stop these silly changes here and now. I think there are more interesting things to do in the world than discussing the order in which language versions appear, but since it seems very important to you... 1) You didn't give any kind of explanation why to change the long-established version, and no, Italian language first, then minority languages is not an explanation. 2) German isn't the minority language in South Tyrol, it is the majority language. 3) The English name of the province is actually borrowed from the German name Südtirol, so putting the German name first is actually a bit of a clarification for the reader, where the English name comes from. 4) Please consider also comparing this article to other articles about autonomous entities: Basque Country (autonomous community), Catalonia, Åland. Cheers, Mai-Sachme (talk) 11:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mai-Sachme please remember Wikipedia:Civility and save your time for explanations instead of defining other wikicontributors' edits as silly and supposing whether a subject is worth to be discussed or not. FYI I did not do the first edit. Thanks for the explanation. Cheers, Simoncik84 (talk) 18:24, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Simoncik84: Okay, sorry for reacting a bit annoyed. Regarding your question here, I hope it's okay, if I answer on this talk page, since my answer might be useful to read for future editors. As far as I know, there is no concrete rule as such, when it comes to a particular order of alternative names that should be followed. There are general guidelines and conventions, though, that can always be overridden by a strong consensus among editors...

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) states:

The lead: The title can be followed in the first line by a list of alternative names in parentheses, e.g.: Gulf of Finland (Estonian: Soome laht; Finnish: Suomenlahti; Russian: Финский залив, Finskiy zaliv; Swedish: Finska viken) is a large bay in the easternmost arm of the Baltic Sea.

And the guideline adds: Other relevant language names may appear in alphabetic order of their respective languages – i.e., (Estonian: Soome laht; Finnish: Suomenlahti; Russian: Финский залив, Finskiy zaliv; Swedish: Finska viken).

Coming back to our discussion here, using an alphabetic order would suggest we put German before Italian, followed by Ladin. This is exactly the order currently used in the article. As I said before, though, there might be circumstances, where a consensus among editors comes to other solutions. Since you brought up: There might be a good case for putting the Italian name first in the article Aosta Valley, since none of my arguments listed above in my first post hold true. French is indeed a minority language within in the valley itself, while Italian is the native language - according to our article - of 77.29% of the population (so we have a very different situation compared to South Tyrol). And the English name of the valley adopted the Italian rendering Aosta, not the French Aoste. Anyway, that would be a discussion for Talk:Aosta Valley. Cheers, Mai-Sachme (talk) 11:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see, thank you for your prompt and detailed reply. Unless I'm not wrong, one argument of yours would would be true, since French goes before Italian in alphabetic order. Apart from that, I was thinking about the Basque Country, where Euskera is a minority language. I'll open the discussion on the Aosta Valley talk page. Cheers, Simoncik84 (talk) 17:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]