Talk:Theodore Shackley

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Initial Comments

I think the most important book of Shackley is "The third option", probably used currently as a guide for the ethernal war of the empire against the world.

No peace and no war but a continuous state of alarm could be very useful to keep the power.

Truman Burbank from it.wikipedia (Italy)

Large edit

Have added extensively to the biography. I will do more work on the sourcing of material next time. I'm very tired now!

Truman, I have added your book reference to a "further reading" section, I hope you don't mind?

Paul. Paulzon

Seems OK. Only a mistake appears to me: "Kissenger" should be "Kissinger". --Truman Burbank 21:18, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I know. It must have been the cut 'n' paste monster! ... the incorrect one is fixed now. There are still some gaps to be filled in, which I will do when I have the time!-) Paulzon

TDC's removal of valid info

I agree with some of TDC's edits but he is known for steamrolling many edits and only posting edit summaries about the least objectionable ones. In this case the supposedly unverified quotes are easily verified with google -- for example, the kissinger/shackley exchange was published in many books -- http://books.google.com/books?q=%22I+don%27t+see+why+we+need+to+stand+by+and+watch+a+country+go&btnG=Search+Books

Also while I think it is ok to delete sources that are questionable, deleting sources such as Richard Allen's notes is just a crude way of trying to shift the POV here by eliminating valid and relevant information.--csloat 19:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bravo and hooray on the Kissenger quote, but this article is not about Kissenger, its about Ted Shackley, and I cannot find one source for his quote [1]. After digging through Osborne's service records with a FOIA, Burkett discovered that he was a fraud. And I asked you several times before, stop stalking me from article to article. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 00:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Look TDC--you are the one stalking me; I am not busying myself looking up your IP address, trying to figure out where you live, and then using that information to intimidate you. The fact is I looked at your user contributions to see if you were engaged in the same kind of heavy-handed drive-by massive POV edits and censorship on other pages that you were engaged in on Plame affair and Salman Pak; I saw that indeed you were, and I intervened where I had information. Calling me a "stalker" is just a personal attack designed to intimidate.--csloat 06:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at your user contributions to see if you were engaged in the same kind of heavy-handed drive-by massive POV edits and censorship on other pages that you were engaged in .... Thats called staking chief and is completely inapropriate. I know for a fact I am not the only one you do this to, and it best end here. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 13:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Look, TDC, you are not going to intimidate me away from editing pages that you have edited by these personal attacks. There is nothing that says I can only edit pages you haven't touched. I could just as easily make the same complaint about you and Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, or, more appropriately, about you going out of your way to learn my name and home address in order to intimidate me. If I were really stalking you, I'd be editing articles about Aldo Moro and the Sandinistas too; you are probably spreading disinformation there too. Threaten me all you want TDC; I will not stop correcting misinformation on wikipedia just because you had something to do with it.--csloat 15:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Updates

Dear TDC, I am interested in your statement:

... After digging through Osborne's service records with a FOIA, Burkett discovered that he was a fraud. ... Torturous Devastating Cudgel 00:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I was in Vietnam with Ken for 10 months, working out of a safehouse in Da Nang. I am trying to find the Burkett information. God knows what stories Ken "Olson" may have cooked up since his departure from Army Intelligence in 1968. Anyway, I am certainly curious to know what the "fraud" business is all about. Thanks, Dave "Misterfixit" Mann, CWO4 USA (Ret) (misterfixit at loveable.com)

A gigantic fabrication

(a comment removed from the main page)Truman Burbank 15:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This entire section alleging many different activities of Ted Shackley is a gigantic fabrication especially as regards the "Secret Team". And Shackley had no role at all in the so-called Iran-Contra Affair. Signed Richard Secord, MajGen, USAF (Ret)

Richard Secord or not, the point is accurate. First, the "Secret Team" stuff was the blather of Daniel Sheehan and his Christic Institute. There is much to be said about that lawsuit, but very little of it is relevant to Shackley. I have updated the article accordingly. Second, I have updated his thread-like link to the Iran–Contra affair to remove the conspiracy theories and reflect with the Tower Commission stated. I have also included his repudiation of the allegations that he was involved in the arms for hostages deal. - Location (talk) 04:33, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

POVers

Mmm, looks like this article has been vandalised by several people with obvious agendas and little or no citations for the new material, also several original sources have been removed (hence the lack of citation warning at the top of the main article). I propose removing some of the unsourced POV material, reinstating some of the original sources and reinstating some of the well referenced material that has been removed for no reason.

Does anyone have any objections?

Paulzon 15:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I concur. It may also be necessary to make this a protected page so only established users can make edits to it.--Kumioko (talk) 00:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback Kumioko. As you can probably see, I have hung back for a LONG time as I have been waiting for some kind of response one way or the other. Paulzon (talk) 20:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

PBFORTUNE / PBSUCCESS

I'm not a watcher of this article, but noticed that PBFORTUNE / PBSUCCESS is quoted here, apparently in the context of Chile in the 1960s. If we look at Operation PBSUCCESS, we can see that it was about Guatemala in 1951-1954. Can someone with better sources than mine please sort this out? PeterWD (talk) 23:04, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shackley and Wilson

The article originally had the following sentence:

Reportedly, he was forced out of the CIA by Turner who disapproved of Shackley’s close involvement with former agent Edwin P. Wilson (who had become an arms dealer) and an ex-CIA employee, Frank Terpil (who in 1981 defected to Libya and later to Cuba).

There is no source for Shackley having a close relationship with Frank Terpil, so I have deleted this part. The phrase "reportedly" may be a reference to an article by Michael Ledeen on Shackley's resignation from CIA. David Corn's book on Shackley has a detailed discussion of Shackley's decision to leave. To say that Shackley was forced out strongly implies that if he had not resigned he would have been fired. This is not the case, according to Corn. I will take a look at the Ledeen article to see if it justifies the statement in the article.

The discussion in the article has virtually nothing to do with Shackley's term as DDO; it is a summary of Shackley's involvement with Wilson, based largely on a page from a book by Jonathan Marshall and Peter Dale Scott. For all of the information, Scott cites Peter Maas's book on Wilson, Manhunt. According to Maas, Michael Ledeen had told federal prosecutor Lawrence Barcella, head of the federal investigation of Wilson, that Wilson's company, EATSCO should not be investigated for auditing fraud because it might have part of a covert operation. Scott, and the article, both diverge from Maas in claiming that Ledeen's action was in defense of Shackley; Maas says it was in defense of another man, Erich Von Marbod. Since Scott has not accurately cited Maas, I have deleted this claim as well. Rgr09 (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]