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Deletion

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Geno's Steaks was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. 10 votes to keep (excluding unsigned alleged sock puppet vote, and keep vote struck through), 1 of which accepted merge; 1 clear vote to merge. Postdlf 05:51, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Geno's Steaks

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Let's Delete this thing. Advertisement, not notable. --Improv 20:43, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

    • After seeing the votes involved here, I did a bit more research on the company, and it seems less clearly not notable. I still have doubts as to whether it's truly notable, but no longer enough to really advocate its deletion. I change my vote to Abstain --Improv 17:45, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • KEEP, KEEP, KEEP. Extremely notable. Cheese steaks are notable, Philadelphia is well known for its cheese steaks, and Geno's, along with Pat's Steaks, are the most well known makers of cheese steaks in the city. In fact, Pat's is commony cited as having invented the cheese steak, also very notable. This is not advertising. Geno's and Pat's are (quite literally) Philadelphia cultural icons. If you've ever had and enjoyed a cheese steak, you have Geno's and Pat's to thank for it. func(talk) 20:57, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Very local cultural icons are not usually notable enough for Wikipedia. --Improv 21:03, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Merge with cheesesteak and redirect. Likewise for Pat's Steaks. P. Riis 21:11, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep or possibly merge. (Noting that these are not just local icons, as I knew of them growing up in New Jersey) —siroχo 21:33, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Geno's and Pat's meet the notability bar IMO. They're mentioned regularly on Food Network, and it's almost impossible to talk about cheesesteaks without talking about these places. The language in the Pat's article could use a little neutralizing, though. I could see a combined article, since they're usually spoken of in conjunction, or a merge with cheesesteak if necessary. —Triskaideka 22:17, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Sufficiently notable; mentioned by Fortune magazine; seem to be the Chez Panisse of cheesesteaks. Ack, I'm hungry now. Antandrus 22:54, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Notable indeed! Nadavspi 00:41, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I had a cheesteak for lunch today, therefore keep. -Sean Curtin 01:18, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep - living in Philadelphia, especially, you can't stop hearing about Geno's and Pat's. Even though this article could be cleaned up... Ian Pugh 01:46, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I'm completely across the country from Geno's -- and every cheesesteak place I've been in has pictures of Philly cheesesteak joints, and every single one has Geno's. Besides, I'm hungry. --jpgordon {gab} 04:20, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep This should never have been nominated for VfD. Waste of voters time.
    • The above vote was cast by User:Radman1, who subsequently cast another vote below. —Triskaideka 15:44, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Wow... sock puppetry over a cheese steak joint... sad. func(talk) 16:29, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • Not sure which is more sad, sockpuppetry over a cheese steak joint or accusations of sockpuppetry over an article which no one feels should be deleted in the first place. anthony (see warning) 23:00, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
          • I am very careful in my accusations, I do the research on edit history. When I've convinced myself that we've got a bonafide sock puppet on our hands, I don't appoligize. People who want to either troll or cheat in a vote get no sympathy from me, regardless of the ineffectiveness of their efforts. func(talk) 23:21, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • User:Radman1, "RaD Man", and GRider all appear to be the same person, who has been known for trolling, see: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/RaD Man. func(talk) 19:21, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Even in San Francisco I've heard of this place. Agree it needs to be cleaned up though. --Neschek 19:48, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Appears notable. GRider 21:21, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • This account was created after VfD nomination --Improv 17:45, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Was speedy deleted until I nominated it on VfU. Keep, obviously, one of the most famous cheese steak places in the world. anthony (see warning) 23:44, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • KEEP!!! Definately notable, mentioned on TV multiple times, been in the newspapers. building is a registered historic landmark according to the tourism board for Philadelphia. Alkivar 01:39, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. *sigh* RaD Man 06:46, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

Night Photo

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Proposed:

Current:

I would crop out some of the borders, but I believe my photo would be better, as it is how the landmark currently appears. Any suggestions? Any objections? J.reed 05:05, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Self-published source re origin of "Geno's" name

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On my talk page: "I undid the "source" for two reasons: it isn't independent of the subject (it is the subject) and a link to the place is already on the article, so a second link is redudant. The place is famous, so sources independent of Geno's shouldnt be hard to find. Jacksinterweb (talk) 02:37, 26 December 2007 (UTC)"[reply]

re: [1] and [2]

While the source is not independent of the subject, the info it supports is not controversial in the least. Please see WP:SELFPUB. If you feel you have reason to believe this information is controversial, please explain why. Cheers. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 02:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was a judgment call, that I won't revisit. Selfpub is fine, but independent should have been the first choice (which is also mentioned on the same page as WP:Selfpub). Geno's is an iconic restaurant, so independent sources shouldn't be hard to find. At first blush an article with mutltiple direct links to Geno's web site seems a bit iffy. Truth be told if section were just be phrased differently it never would have gotten the "fact" tag in first place (btw I didnt fact tag it). Again, just a judgment call, and I won't pursue further. Jacksinterweb (talk) 03:11, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please

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Clearly we have a photograph of this sign indicating that it says "Please". If there are any further edits to the sign's text on this Wikipedia article, please only remove or replace the entire text, and not just the word "please". Also remember WP:SOAP... what you think of this sign, establishment, or the people that work there is not encyclopedic. j.reed (talk) 18:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've been re-adding the word "Please" as it is clearly on the sign. That said, I think it is possible/likely that the sign shown is not the original. I'd bet the original was something a bit low key and the new sign (similar to the bumper stickers) was added once Vento noticed that someone was paying attention to the signs. (After all, Vento is big on promoting himself/the business.) I haven't found a source for this, however. Anyone? - SummerPhD (talk) 21:23, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the word "Please" is not very clear on that sign and I didn't even see it at first. That's partly why I removed it with the other part being that I had found several big name news sources quoting the sign without it. I wouldn’t be surprised if those reporters also didn't see the word, which is small and in cursive and is red and white and tends to blend in with the red and white flag and eagle. Because of this I saved the file and altered it in Photoshop, recropping, brightening, and sharpening it and replaced the old one. The CBS article that I used to replace the previous dead link does not include the word please. If you are looking for one that does you'll find it here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23715954/?GT1=43001 If the current sign is not the original sign, I doubt you'll ever find a solid source for that one. By the way, it looks like you broke the page somehow with your last edit as the ref links are now mixed into the "English sign controversy" section. BillyTFried (talk) 00:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The word "Please" clearly is there. It is not obvious, possibly by design. I don't expect that we'll find a source saying Vento swapped signs, but we might find sources showing the original sign (assuming I'm right and this isn't the original). Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if the current sign isn't the original. A handwritten original sign would be an "off-the-cuff" kind of decision. I'm thinking a deliberatly provocative full-color job, decorated with flags and eagles and shit, might be more Ventos speed. - SummerPhD (talk) 14:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't "break" the page. It's damned hard to "break" anything on Wikipedia. I screwed up. When editing a section, I'll often temporarily add a <nowik>

</nowiki> tag so that I can see my finished refs in the preview. I've fixed it now. - SummerPhD (talk) 14:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I'm a fan of the new photo. The crop is a bit close and the photoshopping makes the "Please" clearer than the original sign. I like the slight pull back of the prior photo for context, but that's just my opinion. The increased clarity of the "Please", though, seems to be a distortion of the real McCoy. Such a thing might be appropriate if we had sources discussing the word being there and press missing it (if that's what happened). However, we're the only ones (AFAIK) talking about it, so I think the new one is beyond "descriptive". Other thoughts? - SummerPhD (talk) 14:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Edit to add: "Prior version" and "new version".
For me the word "please" is completely illegible in the older pic without clicking on it to see it blown up. But suit yourself, as long as you don't mind constantly re-adding the word please a million times. Frankly, I don't think it makes that much difference, kinda like the difference between saying FUCK OFF WET BACK! and PLEASE FUCK OFF WET BACK! :-P BillyTFried (talk) 00:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Joey Venuto death

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Joe or Joey Venuto died of a heart attack on August 23, 2011. Considering his philanthropic activities and his famous (or notorious) Speak English sign, I think he should have a separate article. --DThomsen8 (talk) 12:55, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone verify his date of birth? In the beginning of the article, it speaks about his life (1920-2011), yet further on, it says that he was 71 when he died.Wzrd1 (talk) 16:15, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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