Talk:List of LGBT figures in mythology

"Deo author Grimal has respectfully requested that his characters not be listed here, because it is not their defining trait"

I'm not sure about this. By that same token we could remove over half those listed here. I'm of the opinion that it is bad to have any list like this, as it automatically defines them by their sexualities - but in a heteronomative society I have to accept my thoughts are the minority. and get on with making this article the best it can be, if we are to have it.

Anyway, the issue of the subjects of wikipedia articles having influence over their content has come up before, and its been decided its against Wikipedia's policy of NPOV and knowledge spreading. So you will have to justify it some more, I think, Gilgamesh, if you don't mind. Thanks. -Erolos 00:45, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I have nothing else at all to argue. Grimal is a friend of mine. He requested I remove the information. So I did. But I also know Wikipedia procedure, and if you think it should be restored, then I'm not going to stop you nor anyone else from doing that. So, from this point on, I am no longer involved in that. Do what you think is best.

Is it considered a faux pas to edit when you know real people attached to the subject? I never used to think it made a difference. I just don't know what to do anymore. My judgment in this dispute is colored by my personal associations. - Gilgamesh 03:48, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Being straight, gay, lesbian, or bisexual is not necessarily anyone's single defining trait. Nor is nationality, skin color, religion, occupation, etc. Yet, we have lists for all of those traits which, combined, help to define a person (real or fictional). I'm not at all familiar with this exact case, or even how many names we are talking about. Has anyone here read the books? To what degree is the sexual orientation of these characters made clear? Is it inferred, stated, or acted out? Thanks, -Willmcw 05:17, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

The source material is this webcomic. And yes, in all cases where "(gay)" was indicated, they are unambiguously gay. And where "(probably gay)" was indicated, it was in a deeply homosocial context. See also Deo. And I don't consider these lists to be the defining label of characters, but just as another list to sort a subject by association. But I guess that, in a social or personal context, it may not always be acceptable. Sometimes I think that I think too robotically... - Gilgamesh 05:37, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Stewie Griffin

Changed the wording of his section. Although the joke is definitely that Stewie is - or will be - gay, he has shown interest in females on numerous occasions (see his relationship in Dammit Janet, and the episode where he got an erection over some cheerleaders). Plus he's only 1 year old, so let's not label him yet!

Separate page for television?

I wonder whether it wouldn't clarify matters to have a separate list of GLBT characters from television? Not sure whether their inclusion here is entirely in the spirit of the original list intentions.... Pjamescowie 08:20, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm ambivalent. If necessary, this page can be turned into a disambiguation page, with other subarticles linking back here. - Gilgamesh 22:10, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Can you clarify why you are proposing the split? I assume you're talking about fictional TV characters, not real TV actors or personalities. Why not include movies and plays too? Thanks, -Willmcw 22:23, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

I think it is because this page was probably originally intended to list more significant longstanding, i.e. those in myth, and in highly significant works of fiction (e.g. Tolkein - Lord of the rings [not that this necessarily contains LGB characters]), rather than characters from TV programmes that are likely not to be ever mentioned again once the people who watched the programmes the first time have died (e.g. in 80 years). ~~~~ 09:01, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Adult content warning on external links

Shouldn't there be a warning for websites with adult content? And gay themes themselves are not adult content—I'd venture to say that that assertion itself is a demeaning POV. When I followed that external link, there were advertisements for pornographic content, and not everyone who is into gay themes is by extension into adult content. I don't propose removing any links, I only propose adding a simple "(adult content)" next to each link that has it in blatancy. Honestly, it is extremely arrogant POV to presume all gay literature and media to be pornographic by association. It just perpetuates demeaning stereotypes that all gay people are obsessed with sexual intercourse. Would this be the same issue if we were editing List of heterosexual figures in fiction and myth if such an article existed? - Gilgamesh 14:12, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Since when was not having any message about adult content equal to claiming gay themes are adult content ?

The site itself only has (a few) ads for porn. The ads are not pornographic in themselves. Wikipedia is not about vetting sites that have external links to porn in them. Google would fall under this, for example. Don't be ridiculous. ~~~~ 19:26, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Renee Montoya

Renee Montoya is far from the first DC Comics lesbian; Maggie Sawyer, Sigrid Nansen, Hazel McNamara, and Foxglove all predated her in coming out.

Names that shouldn't be here

It has never been stated, nor is there any proof that Quatre Raberba Winner of Gundam Wing is gay. Just because several thousand fangirls "want" him to be gay, dosn't mean he is. I'm removing his name. --Leelan 15:25, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Transgendered?

Assuming this list also is intended to include transgendered persons, I've added Halima Saranov/Aran'gar from The Wheel of Time. Even if not, the character was originally a male interested in women, and will not have sex with men, so it probably stands without that quirk. nae'blis _(talk) 17:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm confused

This is a mythological list right? Why is all the talk about characters in novels or Family Guy? Also why are half, or more, of the names here not mentioned in their articles as being LGBT at all?--T. Anthony 23:45, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Zephyrus

Isn't Zephyrus bi, rather than gay? I mean, he had three kids with Chloris, and two with the harpy Celaeno/Podarge. Daibhid C

New comments belong on the bottom of the page, preferably with a descriptive header. The "+" link at the top of the page is helpful in auto-formatting this. As an asside, I think the article intro should have a disclaimer about sexuality in ancient Greek culture and/or the history of the terms gay/lesbian/bisexual and the cultural implications therein. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 12:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Sappho

Are you sure Sappho is lesbian? I have read up on her, and it simply says that she lived on the island of LESBOS. This is not to be confused with being lesbian.

True, the sexuality of the historical Sappho of Lesbos is something that we'll likely never know definitively; however, Sappho is often mentioned in classical mythology where her orientation is less ambiguous. Looking at various sources, her homosexual label could have been slander, it could have been mistakes in various translations, or she may very well have been romantically involved with women, but there's little doubt that the generations that followed her considered her a "woman for women". In fact, this reputation (whether true or not) became so well-known that it is from her that we have the word "lesbian" in its modern context ("the poet from Lesbos", i.e. "the Lesbian poet"). 68.13.247.237 13:23, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Gilgamesh

What is the source regarding Gilgamesh being gay or bi? I did a quick read thru the main article and the Epic article and don't see anything ... TAnthony 16:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Mesenet & Saa & Hu

Moved from main article

• Mesenet - Goddess of brick-childbirth in Egyptian mythology (lesbian)

Does someone have a reliable source for this? the Wiki article mentions 2 male consorts and zero talk of female-female relationships

• Saa - God of wisdom in Egyptian mythology (gay)
• Hu - God of creation itself in Egyptian mythology (gay)

Nothing in the wiki articles would support 'gay' as an identifying label - you got any reliable sources for inclusion on this list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.15.255.227 (talk) 23:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

future merge

Once i have finished getting LGBT themes in comics to GA, i'm going to start a similar LGBT themes in mythology. As this list is entirely uncited and definitions of LGBT didn't exist then, i think redirecting it to a cited article discussing figures that have been labelled retroactively as gay is better, as it allows ambiguity and anachronism to be addressed.

As the list is so short, i expect all the figures that have reliable sources will be included anyway. Any objections, ideas, desire to collaborate?YobMod 18:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)