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Rename

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Resolved
 – Article was renamed to List of cats, and has stayed that way for several years.

I plan to remove the word "historical" from the article name. See Talk:List_of_historical_animals for further discussion. Jay 08:39, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I moved from List of cats to List of notable cats instead of List of famous cats just because the last was not allowed for the title move. I still feel the moved title is not good since it still can misgive that the notable cats contains fictional cats, and cat animation characters. So I'm opening this discussion for any possible change of the title.--Caspian blue 12:57, 7 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The relevant naming guideline is at WP:LISTNAME, and the text reads: ". . . "notable" is assumed, and that word (or similar subjective words such as "famous," "noted," "prominent," etc.) should not be included in the title of a list article." Any distinction between actual and fictional should be spelled out in the introduction to the list, as it is in this article, and as it is in List of dogs, along with many, many others, all done the same way.
I would be fine with List of historical cats as an alternative; this is similar treatment to List of historical horses. UnitedStatesian (talk) 15:15, 8 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reply. If you had left with WP:STAND instead of WP:NC, I would have not wondered for a while. I do not think List of cats is the accurate the title for the article even though there are similar list articles. I think List of historical cats is way better than this article, though the new proposed name also sounds awkward.--Caspian blue 17:30, 8 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just passing by. I too agree with a name change similar to the above, or List of popular cats, with WP:NOTABILITY very strictly followed. Regards to all. Rehman (talk) 10:41, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How exactly was the consensus to rename it List of cats? It seems like the overwhelming opinion was that was way too vague (and it is way too vague). I'm going to move it to List of popular cats unless anyone has any objections   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:20, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Editing problem

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Resolved
 – PEBKAC.

I've tried everything I can think of, but the Bill Clinton link in the article just won't turn into a link! The same string pasted in here or the sandbox works fine, but not in the article. Ortolan88 06:14, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It was a missing "]" in the URL on the preceding line that was the culprit. - Nunh-huh 06:20, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Dog and cat article structuring

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FYI
 – Just a pointer.

To whom it may concern: Please feel free to visit Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/Categories because I think that structuring Cat articles and Dog articles could take a similar tack--would be nice to use same subcategories for consistency. Elf | Talk 04:11, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

WP:LISTCRUFT

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Resolved
 – List cleaned up; requires regular maintenance, however.

I have a complaint. This list strikes me as way too long. Most of these cats are not famous in their own right, but a few are. It's difficult to find the actual historical cats among the "hey this person owned a cat named (blank)" entries.--T. Anthony 02:04, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point and I also agree with Elf. I will work to structure this article like List of historical dogs. Grika Ⓣ 13:39, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Done. I also changed the sub sections to double linefeeds to shorten the TOC while maintaining differentiation. Grika Ⓣ 16:23, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I'm being a little harsh, but I personally would say this page deserves nomination for deletion.

How is a cat defined as notable? There are hundreds if not thousands of 'notable cats'. Some of the sections, especially the one at the bottom for cats with no name just list celebrities with pet cats.. ! Barely any of it has citation, and most of it could quite easily be made up,

It is not particularly encyclopedic, nor remotely useful. If nobody replies here, I may nominate for deletion Dvmedis (talk) 06:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further to this, I have tagged the article so people can come to the talk page to discuss Dvmedis (talk) 07:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd object to deletion, based on most of the contents of Category:Lists of historical animals, and a few of the items in Category:Lists of trees, which are highly comparable (in scope and intent and sourcing)
Regarding whether it is "encyclopedic"; one of the main sources is - Cat World: A Feline Encyclopedia by Desmond Morris; Penguin Books, New York 1997. However, some of the other sources should be improved/clarified.
Regarding whether it is "useful", that is a subjective value, that you can only decide for yourself. It's getting 300-400 hits/day, so hopefully some of those people are finding it "useful". I just found this list today, and have found it a useful navigational tool leading to many interesting articles. -- Quiddity (talk) 04:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I would at least recommend we delete the whole list of unnamed cats - There isn't a single citation and they are neither notable nor particularly interesting. Examples: Stanley Kubrick was extremely fond of the numerous cats he kept in his home., Henri Matisse's black cat., Robert de Niro has had several cats. etc.. I also propose we seriously trim famous pets of other famous people. IMHO they should only be in the list if the cat is notable for any particular reason. Inappropriate examples IMHO: Teeny, belonging to Martha Stewart., Cheeses, belonging to Jay Leno., Domino, belonging to Emma Watson. If we really want to start listing all cats owned by celebrities, then where does it stop? Reality TV stars? Actors with bit-parts in major movies? The list could rack up to becoming endless. Lastly thought experiment cats; one example and it doesn't 'fit in' with the rest of the article - not least because the cat never existed. Dvmedis (talk) 03:18, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Much better suggestions :) I agree with all of that.
Do note that a few of the "famous people's cats" are mentioned/highlighted within the person's biography, eg "Norton, Scottish fold tabby belonging to Peter Gethers". It might be worth checking some of the items more carefully than others. -- Quiddity (talk) 05:44, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article seems to me to be a laundry list. Please feel free to tell me if my opinion is wrong. Usb10 Let's talk 'bout it! 22:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't disagree with you, but I have no doubts the article would easily survive AFD. Kansan (talk) 16:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Restructuring

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Resolved
 – Old news; list was not actually structured this way.

I personally think that the current arrangement can create some confusion. Catarina could be counted as famous in her own right as being the inspiration for The Black Cat, Anne Frank's cats might qualify based on their appearance in her book, and others could be seen as crossing-over the two lists as well. Would you all be willing to have this changed to one single list of named cats, and one other list of unnamed cats? I welcome any response. Badbilltucker 01:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are the unnamed cats really unnamed? Or are that cat's with UNKNOWN names? 198.28.92.5 14:54, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unreliable source?

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Unsinkable Sam, reference: website. Website says: Source: "History". No comment. --Polarlys 13:04, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Got a point there. I'm adding the names from that list, and then going on to other lists. Also note that the creator of the website did apparently go through some effort to try to verify those marked with either a c or an r, so I think it probably qualifies as at least nominally reliable. But, as stated, I will search for additional, more specific, references, as soon as I see that they are all included. Badbilltucker 15:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Too many fictional cats mixed in here

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Resolved
 – Just do it, and check page regularly for needed maintenance.

This is a list of historical cats which i take to mean cats that actually lived. Therefore fictional cats should be deleted or moved to another list.LiPollis 07:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just delete them. I removed Morris the Cat only just now. This list should be policed and pruned. It does not require discussion, per WP:BOLD and WP:V - matters of policy - to clean this list up, it only requires action to simply do it. The fictional ones belong in List of fictional cats. People are going to keep adding them, because of the ambiguous List of cats title, so watchlist it and clean it up regularly. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 14:53, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Specific list entries

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Chopin's cat

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Resolved
 – Removed as unsourced.

I removed Frédéric Chopin's cat who partially inspired Valse Brilliante by jumping on his keyboard while he was composing it. I cannot find a reliable reference for this. References I have found state vaguely that "it has been reported" and "one book states" that a "Cat Waltz" (I think they are possibly referring to Op. 34 No. 3, but it isn't clear) was inspired by feline antics on the keyboard. I would like to be convinced that such an unlikely story might be true. Is there a confusion here with Domenico Scarlatti's sonata K. 30 which has become known as the "Cat fugue" for apocryphal reasons? Please find a reliable reference before re-inserting Chopin's cat. --RobertG ♬ talk 09:57, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Frank's cats

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Resolved
 – WP:AFD deleted the article, as the cats were found non-notable.

This article has been AfDed and I wondered whether some input from those swho have worked on the historical cats list would be useful. Some on the AfD are claiming that Anne Frank is only "semi-famous"!! Robertsteadman 08:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The AfD was on-target; it's absurd to have an article about someone's cats just because the person is famous. Since they are known to an extent, due to her writings, they should be in the "cats of famous people" section here, but they're clearly not notable or famous in their own right. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 14:49, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cat with an executive MBA

[edit]
Resolved
 – Added.

I don't know if this is worth adding, but Colby Nolanis "a housecat who was awarded an MBA degree in 2004 by Trinity Southern University, a Texas-based diploma mill, sparking a fraud lawsuit by the Pennsylvania attorney general's office." Also, could we make "List of famous cats" redirect here? It took me a while to find the page. (I would do these things myself, but I don't know Wikipedia's policies) Korin43 04:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I created the redirect. Colby Nolan is appropriate, go ahead and add it. Grika Ⓣ 17:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Schrödinger's Cat

[edit]
Resolved
 – Removed as not relevant to this list.

Not only is this cat both alive and dead, it appears to be both real and fictional, as it appears on both the fiction and non-fiction lists. It is a bit of a cute easter egg, but we should probably open the box and decide its status. I have set up a discussion here Please offer your opinion on where it belongs. --Djohns21 (talk) 02:34, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that "Schrödinger's Cat" has two meanings: The actual cat of Schroedinger, which is not notable or famous, versus the concept discussed at Schrödinger's Cat. An argument can be made that this latter Gedankenexperiment cat is "fictional" (it's certainly theoretical and metaphorical), and should be in List of fictional cats. Neither belong in this article. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 15:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Blackie the Talking Cat

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Needs to be added at some point. Can be very reliably sourced, because he appears in court records, and the judge himself says, on record, that he heard the trained cat say "I love you". I've lost the original stuff I found on him, but it should probably not be too hard to find again. I'm mentioning him here on the talk page in case someone else wants to help. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 15:22, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The burning house kitten-rescuer

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I remember this story when it was first popularized. A very badly burned cat scheduled for euthanasia was rescued as a heroine and kept as a special-needs house cat. She had originally been observed repeatedly running into a burning building to save her kittens, one at a time, and basically burned her face off in the process, but all of those that she rescued survived. There may be more than one story and cat like this, but the one I'm thinking of had a lot of TV and news coverage nationally in the US at least. Such a cat mentioned by name, Scarlet or Scarlett, with pictures, in Cats 101, season 3, episode 5 (at 8:38 in the copy I have, with commercial breaks edited out). I don't know if this is same cat that received so much coverage. Maybe not, and maybe both have enough coverage to be notable additions here, or maybe it's all one cat, or maybe this sort of thing is so common it's only notable locally and not good enough to add here. Bears further investigation and discussion. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 15:30, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oscar the hospice cat

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The last sentence is very misleading. It says roughly: "To date, he has predicted correctly 25 times". Its wrong, it was after the personnal noticed the behavior, and he had predicted and helped 25 times running, when they changed the routines, and called the relatives as soon they noticed he was placing himself at the feet of a patient. so the relatives could be there in the last moments. So he had many more predictions / helpings after that! Easiest to take away the last sentence, Anyway, he was usually right, so the totale is essentially as many as died there during his years in this part of the hospice... And if two were two dying simultaneously in different corridors, he went to her whom died alone, and held her company./StefanZ90.231.255.39 (talk) 19:32, 7 September 2020 (UTC)/StefanZ[reply]

Needs citations

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Some of the cats are easily verifiable, i.e Cream Puff, but others aren't so because they don't link to an article and/or don't have enough citations to prove it. I am marking it with Refimprove. Usb10 Let's talk 'bout it! 21:40, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's not really necessary. Any entry that does not have a proper citation to a verifiable, reliable source should simply be deleted. This article, like all other lists of this sort, it a global magnet for vanity edits and other nonsense. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 14:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Guinness Book of World Records

[edit]
Unresolved
 – Should we include all the world-record-holding cats?

Snowbie is currently the longest cat in the world, and the heaviest. Snowbie deserves to be on this page. --66.218.17.142 17:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming that by "longest" you mean eldest, there are already 3 cats on this list (Baby, Creme Puff, & Grampa) that make that claim. T-bonham (talk) 09:12, 16 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No, the commenter clearly actually meant "longest". The upshot of the comment is whether or not we should include all the current world-record-holding cats. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 15:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: I'd have to say yes, since inclusion in Guinness is one of the only reliable rubrics of cat "fame" there is. I.e., it's the least subjective of the many criteria that could be brought to bear on the question of inclusion in this list. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 15:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nikola Tesla's cat

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Could someone add Nikola Tesla's cat Macak to the list of cats owned by famous people or the one of notable cats? It could be argued either way really, since Tesla's interest in electricity was sparked by his cat. I suck at editing or I'd do it myself. As for a citation here's one http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/story_youth.html 68.84.184.173 (talk) 04:13, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

I redlinked it because that cat has a very notable incident. I will try and create the article when I find sources.--Canoe1967 (talk) 05:07, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Internet and cats

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Please swing by and help improve this new article! :D--Coin945 (talk) 03:30, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Major Restructuring

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Hey there folks. I have CATegorised the list (see what I did there?) into ships cats, mascots, record holders etc. If the list gets much longer I would advocate splitting the cats famous in their own right from the cats of famous people into a second article. --ERAGON (talk) 12:40, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Ships cats

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The Ship's cat article has a big list of famous cats, is it worth merging the list in? --82.29.128.169 (talk) 19:40, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Trim's entry

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hi, i have just amended Trim's entry on this list to include the ship, HMS Reliance, as he was born onboard and was one of the ship's cats/kittens, and also amended his relationship with Flinders from "owned by" to "companion of" as Flinders thought of him as a friend and companion, see Flinders' biographical tribute to Trim. thanks, Coolabahapple (talk) 15:42, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mascots / Tama

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That's "single-pawedly", not "single-handledly". Please remain correct.

On the behalf of Bastet - --2A02:560:4299:9200:2119:93C2:29DB:7444 (talk) 11:12, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hamish McHamish

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@2601:444:201:9e70:a08e:d0ab:c37c:32f0: Why is Hamish McHamish considered political? I know nothing about him, but his article says he was owned by BBC producer, and became famous for hanging out at local businesses, having a facebook page, and publishing a book. If he had a connection to politics it really should be added to his article. Hoof Hearted (talk) 19:36, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bingus

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Where bingus Jefferyjaff (talk) 05:46, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, if Floppa is notable enough for an entry, then so is Bingus, even if only as an entry without its own page, similarly to N2 or Phoenix. While Bingus seems to have had less "direct" presence than Floppa, his popularity and impact could be argued to be comparable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.1.25 (talk) 20:01, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 July 2022

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Doing as proposed, as it's attracted far less opposition than the other suggestion of "famous cats". (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 03:53, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of cats → List of individual cats – The article name was changed without consensus or a prior move request. Also, the other articles of famous animals are titled "List of individual x". Also, the current name is very ambiguous. Blubabluba9990 (talk) (contribs) 20:47, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Big Floppa

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Since Wikipedia has an article on Big Floppa now, should we add him to this list, even though he is technically a caracal? 2600:1001:B119:412F:F4D6:C045:3368:9E0F (talk) 13:45, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pinky and Hennessy

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinky_the_Cat?wprov=sfti1

Google: Hennessy the flying cat. 2607:FB91:1998:533E:F0A3:2250:EB33:C99A (talk) 05:58, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Felix, Bolt & Hodge

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I put down the cats from Huddersfield station Felix and Bolt, put the cathedral cat Hodge, because they are all notable due to their websites and social media accounts for these cats. Plus I was also making the list less Amerocentric. 159753 (talk) 19:28, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Websites mentions & social media do not make cats notable enough for mention here. Nor puff pieces in the newspaper. Please stop adding them. Happy editing, SilverTiger12 (talk) 21:27, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mittens

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Mittens is listed under "New Zealand" and "Other". Mittens is now in Auckland, so the "Other" entry should be removed. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1976829619311990/ Pamelahoward (talk) 01:34, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not cats

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Not cats, except in a very general sense. While it is not stated (should it be?), I believe it is implicit that this list is about the small domesticated carnivorous mammals, cats felis catus, commonly referred to as a house cat. Therefore, I have deleted Messi (cougar) and Big Floppa (even though the latter is only "technically" a caracal). If they are allowed then then there is room for Elsa the lioness who is far more famous. (Yes, I know that was, like, a century ago before the Internet, so it doesn't count.) Also, Al Oeming's famous cheetah Tawana. Huh? And how about the MGM lion (Max?). I'm sure there are others. Humpster (talk) 01:44, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup in progress

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I've never met a cat I didn't like. I think there is room for a little whimsy in an article like this. Nevertheless, I question many entries. The section about other pets [sic] of famous people has been flagged as needing citations for more than six years. so more flags are not going to accomplish anything. Consequently, I will be deleting several cats in that section, and throughout the article. In case I don't give explicit reasons, you are welcome to revert a deletion if you provide justification for its inclusion. Be bold!

Here are a few examples:

"Jellylorum was T. S. Eliot's own cat..." saying it was immortalized is just a bit excessive, especially when it is not mentioned in the article about Elliot.

"Nigger Man, the cat belonging to relatives of H. P. Lovecraft". It isn't mentioned in his article and it wasn't even his cat!"

"Shorty Blackwell, a cat that belonged to Micky Dolenz of The Monkees". I don't know whether Shorty is in the list because of association with Micky, The Monkees, or the song. I trust Shorty is acknowledged in one of those three articles. No more is justified.

"Snowball, the most famous of Ernest Hemingway's cats...". Apparently Snowball isn't famous enough to be mentioned in the article about Hemingway. Humpster (talk) 02:12, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nigger Man is definitely notable enough for inclusion in the list regardless of the cat's association to Lovecraft. Traumnovelle (talk) 08:34, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Presidential cats

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American Presidential Cats

I have deleted Puffins, Tammy and Dixie, Tiger and Blacky, and Shan, the cats of several American presidents. They are not considered worthy of an article so they can't be "famous in their own right". They had a single news reference, mostly not mainstream, and those sources are more about the presidents than their cats. All the cats are presumably in United States presidential pets, and if they aren't they certainly don't belong in this article.

I have heard of Socks Clinton and accept sufficient notability/significant coverage for an article and inclusion in the list. It has historical merit, like Richard Nixon's dog Checkers.

But Willow Biden? With a photograph too? I can understand inclusion of Joe Biden's dog, which is newsworthy for attacking employees, in some list. But Willow hasn't done anything, as far as I know. Deleted to avoid charges of influencing election results. Humpster (talk) 05:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have returned the referenced items, please take refs into consideration even if full articles haven't been written as yet (all of the items likely would have enough sources to merit an article). Have left out the photograph as undue, thanks for removing it. The mention of Willow probably won't swing the election to Biden, and Willow may have used up several of its nine lives escaping the clutches and bites of those now infamous Biden doge. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria

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I propose a section "Criteria for Inclusion" in this article, Randy Kryn (talk · contribs). Something like: This article can provide "an avenue for the retention of encyclopedic information that does not warrant separate articles". "Edits of uncertain quality can be first discussed on the talk page for feedback from other editors." To be included in this list, entries must be either:

A) based on reliable sources (with inline citations for each item), or

B) the subject of an independent article which meets notability guidelines

There must be "significant coverage in reliable sources which address the topic directly and in detail". That means, the cat has "attracted attention over a sufficiently significant period of time". The quotations are from the manual of style or similar guides. If you agree in principle, I will add it. Then it's subject to editing by anyone. Humpster (talk) 23:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, good ideas but too restrictive as to "significant period of time". Inline cites wouldn't be needed as long as a Wikipedia article exists. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:52, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Either A or B. Doesn't require both.
"significant period of time" is a wikipedia guideline. It is vague by intent. I'll take out the word sufficient. Humpster (talk) 20:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Other cats

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This section shouldn't exist. I've moved several until I reached boredom. Feel free to move the "others". Humpster (talk) 03:16, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CATegories

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I propose that if there isn't a compelling reason for an entry in a section such as Ship's Cats or Literature, they should all by listed by country. Humpster (talk) 03:35, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

World record holders

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I have a few concerns about this section:

1. Some of the entries are former record holders, So they no longer hold the record.

2. many rely on the Guinness book of records. I note the following conclusion of Wikipedia editors: There is consensus that world records verified by Guinness World Records should not be used to establish notability. Editors have expressed concern that post-2008 records include paid coverage.

3. Some of the entries are based on articles consisting of only a few sentences referring to the record.

I propose to delete from this list any entries based on the Guinness book of records prior to 2009, notwithstanding the existence of articles about them or citations in the press. I will leave this topic for comment until such time as I cruise by again. Humpster (talk) 02:15, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jenny the Titanic Cat

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Would someone include Jenny, the ship cat of the Titanic, who gave birth to a litter of kittens on board and according to one crewmember who saw this as an omen moved them off and left the ship before its fateful crash. 98.143.186.151 (talk) 11:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a good story but only a rumour in the two sources I checked. If there is a reliable source, such as Titanic research, go ahead and add Jenny. Humpster (talk) 22:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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