Talk:Battle of Sekigahara

Date of the battle

The introduction says October 21st while the right-hand side column says September 15th... Which one is correct, it can'tbe both!

During the battle

Uh, does anyone know what actually happened DURING the battle?

Good point. Will try to get right to that. --Euniana/Talk/Blog 15:56, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Okay, now I've added enough (hopefully) info. --Euniana/Talk/Blog 19:10, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Well of what I know from research is that in the morning of the battle the Eastern army charged under the cover of fog. However as the battle stretched on and the fog lifted the tables had turned on the Eastern army and the West gained the upper had. Now during this time Hideaki Kobayakawa who promised to join the Eastern army, was refraining from going to battle this hesitation was causing heavier loses for Tokugawa, until finally Ieyasu fired on Hideaki at Mt. Matsuo. Hideaki Kobayakawa then charged down and flanked the Western army. from other resources such as biographies of Western Daimyo this is a specific detail of what happened, Otani Yoshitsugu who was pushing back the Eastern army was hit by in the rear guard by the traitor, Kobayakawa,unabled to escape Otani commited seppuku, another retainer with Otani, Toda Shigemasa was also surrounded between the Eastern army and Hideaki, and died in battle, it was said that many officers in the Western army mourned greatly after Toda Shigemasa's death. however not all Western Daimyo were trapped in the confusion, Ukita Hidie managed to fight his way out of certain death, as well as the Shimazu, thanks to the sacrifice of Shimazu Toyohisa, who was claimed to have been cut down by Honda Tadakatsu and Ii Naomasa. In the Eastern army many heroes rose to a position of notice such as Ii Naomasa, the Red Devil who was severly wounded, latter dying of those wounds but during the battle was one of the key figures who fought bravely, others are Fukushima Masanori, Kuroda Nagamasa, Honda Tadakatsu and Kani Saizo, who was said to have claimed 16 heads but instead of carrying them all around he stuffed the mouth of each head with bamboo grass to tell which were his, Ieyasu later gave him the name "Sasasaizo"-bamboo grass Saizo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.196.139.198 (talk) 21:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Maps

This page may require two maps at least: 1) one deployment map, listing where all the forces were during the battle, preferably in English; perhaps a translation of the map from the Japanese Wikipedia 2) one map of Japan prior to the Battle of Sekigahara listing which daimyo were on whose side, preferablly in English

In addition, a third map listing the changes in various daimyo's territories might help this article a lot, but is probably not necessary.

I didn't put it on map request since this isn't terribly urgent.

--Euniana/Talk/Blog 19:10, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

---

Musashi on the battlefield

Historians are still baffled at the precise location where(exact province)and what year he was born. It is pretty misleading to say he was sixteen years old at the time of the battle. Historians merely claim he was there as Mushashi himself divulged this bit of information in his books (Go rin no sho:the book of five rings)

Muskets at the Battle

"Almost 20,000 muskets were used in total in this battle alone. This was more than the entire inventory of muskets in the whole of Europe at the time."

An IP user added the above item, which I find extremely hard to believe. The Wars of Religion, as well as exploration and colonization of the world, were in high swing at this time, and 20,000 is ultimately not that large a number if you're going to include every European nation. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if several hundred muskets were present at the battle of Gravelines alone. I have removed the suspect "fact"; if anyone has a citation or reference to back it up, I'd appreciate it. LordAmeth 12:33, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

PS, yes I know this isn't my article. I hope it's not too uncouth to be taking charge like this. LordAmeth 12:33, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Number of deaths

The liner to the Criterion Collection's 'Musashi Miyamoto' notes that 70,000 people died in the 3 day conflagration. Is this accurate? Jack 22:37, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Inahime?

I have read in a few places that Inahime took part in this battle, using her bow and arrow to repel invaders from Numata Castle. I was wondering whether there are any sources that can verify this? ~ Unfortunate

"September" versus "Ninth Month"

I think it is more accurate to replace September 15th with a phrase like "the 15th day of the 9th month" because the use of the word "September" is anachronistic. "September" is a month in the Western solar calendar. Perhaps a better option is to use the Japanese name for the lunar 9th month, Nagatsuki (長月).Monsieurtode 08:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Although I don't know if the battle took place on the 15th day of the 9th month. Remember, if they weren't using the Western calendar, then their New Year's would not line up with ours. I believe that the authors of our source material (references) have already converted the lunar date into corresponding with Sept 15. In other words, I don't know what the date would have been in the lunar calendar, but I believe it would have happened concurrently to events in Europe on Sept 15 of that year. I could be wrong, but that's what I think is the case with most if not all of the dates in our Japanese history articles. LordAmeth 11:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

MilHist Assessment

The Battle of Sekigahara is of very high importance. I don't think I need to explain that further. As for the B class, well, I went with what was already assessed for WP:Japan. This article looks great, and I love that we have a picture, and a list of combatants. But we need more. A lot more. There are no maps, and no detailed description of the strategies and tactics. Entire books have been written on this. LordAmeth 15:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I added a map and a picture --AQu01rius 02:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Excellent. Still could be longer. And there's no references! LordAmeth 20:25, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I have assessed this article as Start class due to the complete lack of referencing. There are no inline citations to back up claims. The article needs several authoritative references, such as books added. These can then be cited in the passage. See WP:CITE. Until these are added it has to be B-Class. Any questions can be left on my talk page or the WP:milhist talk page. Woodym555 18:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Sekigahara, Gifu

There is an article on Sekigahara, Gifu, but "Sekigahara" redirects here. Perhaps there should be a disambiguation link or a link to the Sekigahara, Gifu article somewhere near the top? 71.34.236.14 (talk) 23:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Battle for the Sundered Realm

Does anyone know where this rendering comes from? To the best of my knowledge, in the Japanese language, tenka no wakeme no tatakai is not really a synonym for the Battle of Sekigahara but rather an idiom meaning "a decisive battle." And since the wakeme part actually refers to the decisiveness of the battle (i.e., the changeover from one dominant power to another), it really isn't even a reference to a "sundered realm." I would recommend deleting it entirely unless there is some legitimate reference source for it. What does everybody think?

Spventi (talk) 06:22, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Chosokabe clan

How could their descendants have taken part in the Boshin war against the Tokugawa 200 years later if Morichika and all of his offspring were killed off? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.77.59.150 (talk) 02:46, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Can somebody translate the map under Fall of the Western Army into English?

Per above. Eric - Contact me please. I prefer conversations started on my talk page if the subject is changed 23:04, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Female Soldiers Fought In This Battle?

Under the box titled, Commanders of Eastern Army (Tokugawa Force), is the heading, "Ikeda Sen: 200 women." Who was Ikeda Sen? Who were these 200 women? Any information would be wonderful. Cheers! Xenomorph erotica (talk) 19:24, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

I can find almost nothing of substance about her on the internet, after a very brief search. According to an un-referenced claim, she was the daughter of Ikeda Tsuneoki and she fought at the Battle of Nagakute, with no mention of Sekigahara. The Japanese article doesn't have much else about her, except that she was the wife of Toyotomi Hidetsugu. - Boneyard90 (talk) 01:09, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Recent scholarship by Professor Yoshiji Yamasaki

What is his name in Japanese?Sonnenlos (talk) 17:14, 5 February 2018 (UTC)sonnenlos

山崎 義二 Ahendra (talk) 07:48, 12 May 2024 (UTC)